1 Corinthians 11: 2, 3
James 4: 5-7
WSC We should continue our enquiry concerning the structure of the pious Christian’s household. In the first reading we considered the subject of love, by no means exhausting the subject; but we touched on it because it is perhaps first in the structure of the household. And that subject continues with us as we go through these readings. In this reading I thought we might consider God’s order, because unless there is order there is no fruit. Nothing can be produced where there is disorder and chaos.
I have read these scriptures in Genesis, not that we necessarily need to go into each line, but the general idea is that God set up the lights, God made the two great lights, “the great light to rule the day, and the small light to rule the night”, the thought being - “rule”. Then in the second scripture the key word in v 26 is, “them” - “and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea …”. The scripture in 1 Corinthians 11 defines God’s order in the finest way. It becomes the pivot point in this subject of God’s order; and then the appeal by James to “Subject yourselves … to God”. That should be the question at the end of this meeting; will we subject ourselves to God?
The matter of God’s order involves subjection, obedience, and the kingdom. The kingdom is the subject that in our day underlies the subject of the assembly. We cannot really have a functioning assembly unless we have kingdom principles maintained. This is a subject that sometimes centres too much upon the sisters. They may deserve it, but I think that the brothers perhaps deserve it more.
I think the matter of headship, lordship, kingship, are all critical to the subject we have in hand, the matter of the believer’s household, because if they are not kept in their proper order, then we find that there is unrest. Children are not sure about what they should do, what the directions are, who is giving the directions, what is being said - which way is this household going?
So that, where we begin in Genesis - and we did mention Adam and Eve in the earlier reading - we have this great matter brought in, and we might wonder why the lights are to rule. Then, when God makes man, He says - “Let us make man in our image” and then He says, “let them have dominion”; and later when it speaks about the male and female, it says, “God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth”, v 28. I think when the matter of dominion comes up that raises the whole matter of God’s desire that man should not be alone. It raises the whole matter that man, if I could be understood in saying this, could not do it alone. It required "a helpmate, his like”, chap 2: 18. We spoke a bit about that in the first reading, the matter of lordship in relation to marriage, but this comes in in the very beginning of scripture, and should be given due consideration because of that fact, that God brought it in early, even before Satan brought anarchy and chaos into the race. He brought up this whole matter of order and if we ignore it then we ignore God’s whole system in creation. It is not only order between men and women, it is order between husband and wife. When Paul speaks he says that the, “woman’s head is the man”. That does not mean a ’brethren woman’, that means woman - any woman. That principle is there, that is a definite principle, and I think we need to understand that, there is no discussion. God says, ’I give you this, and I expect you to honour my command’.
DJK I am interested that you mentioned in this reading, and also in the first reading, the pious believer’s household. Could you help us as to that? You obviously have an exercise in relation to what is pious.
WSC Well, how else would you title this? We could use the word ‘godly’, and I think the King James Version uses ”godly” instead of ”pious”. There are many households, the world is full of households, there are many Christian households, so called, and some of them are pious. I think the aim is that we have a household that furthers the testimony of God in it.
DJK I was impressed by each of these scriptures that you had read. A pious household would know how to judge between light and darkness. It would also know what subjection is. These scriptures just impressed me in relation to that.
WSC We could say much as to this verse in Genesis about the sun ruling the day; and we are in the period when it is morally night around us, but there should be day in our households, the bright and morning Star and the Sun of righteousness.
JAH What impresses me about the sun and the moon is that they work together. They have a balancing effect on each other, as a husband and a wife will also have a balancing effect. The man has his place and the wife has that gracious, modifying effect sometimes. God’s mind is that that is the way it is to be in the ordering of things.
WSC I think that is good, and we know from previous ministry, that the assembly is like the moon and it derives its light from the sun. That is where our households shine - in the night and in the darkness.
DH Our brother asked a question as to the significance of piety in the household: it would be the household that God listens to? The Lord had that feature of piety: it is said He was heard "because of his piety", Heb 5: 7. The roots of a household like that are in the death and resurrection of Christ.
WSC I think so, there are many aspects to our households and God’s pleasure is to be seen in relation to a godly, pious household and He blesses it. It is not necessarily with money, that is not the point of blessing, but God is pleased with such a household; and I think we would all desire to have a household like that, that God would put His approval upon.
KAK There is wisdom seen in a household that takes up this order, “The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom” (Ps 111: 10); and respect for God’s commandments in regard to it.
WSC We see it throughout scripture, there are many examples, and we see households doing both things. You have the thought of David the king, and Michal. She was making light of him, and she was barren until the day of her death. That does not only mean no children, but the spiritual idea is that there was no fruit from her. While we get others where there is much fruit produced. Leah and Rachel, “which two did build the house of Israel”, Ruth 4: 11.
APD Although she was not his wife, Abigail balanced David - she was a remarkable balance; she brought in an influence that really maintained the character of the throne.
WSC That is very good. He says, “who hast kept me this day from coming with bloodshed”, 1 Samuel 25: 33. She was a modifying effect. She helped David.
GDR God “hath set apart the pious man for himself”, Ps 4: 3. It preserves us from seeking greater things in this scene. He has set us apart to be here for Himself. That would preserve us from strenuous seeking for more here.
WSC His people are special in His sight. While He is working in a broad sense in relation to others and in relation to the nations and so on, He takes special delight in His people.
SWD It is interesting the way that piety comes into expression in Acts 11 in view of the taking up of the Gentiles: not only was Cornelius said to be pious, but he had a pious soldier, Acts 10: 2, 7.
WSC What can we say about Cornelius? He was a Gentile, he was a centurion, he was a soldier and he had a house and a household. And the Spirit fell upon them all, really based on that man’s piety. That is a remarkable thing to think of that here was a man who had all the strikes against him, and yet God moved in that blessed way, baptising them with the Holy Spirit, even before they were baptised with water.
PDS Can you say something as to God creating them male and female? Man and woman were intended to be God’s image bearers. What in the Christian family is the unique role of the male and the female? Can you give us a little bit of vision of that, the unique role today? Women are seeking a greater role, and there is complete confusion as to the genders, but God sees, as in the scripture here, that being a female is a gift from him, and being a man has a role; and this is all confused today.
WSC That is key to our discussion this afternoon, I think, the place of the man and the woman. The man is under Christ. It must start there. He must be under Christ, and then his wife, under him. That is God’s order. We could not say it any more plainly, any more simply, yet we may violate it any time, especially because it is violated in the world. Then we take our cue from the world, what is happening in the world, the place of women, what they do. It is not that a woman is inferior; she is created in Genesis 1: it is, “male and female created he them”. Then, in chapter 2, He goes into the detail of how He did that. That in no wise detracts from chapter 1; so therefore the female is no less important than the male, but she has a certain role, a certain place and, when she keeps to that place, God blesses her. Personally, I have seen it over and over again, and I am sure others have as well, that there is blessing in that. When she goes outside of that place there is disaster. Now, when a husband accepts his place before Christ, there is blessing equally. When he goes outside of that and assumes the place of Christ, there is disaster.
PDS What you say about assuming the place of Christ is interesting. Where the husband goes out of order - is that where he is not subject to Christ?
WSC Exactly. One place where it is seen is in assembly disorder, assembly difficulties. When assembly difficulties arise, where is the Lord in the matter? Often the brothers have their own idea about what should be done, but where is the Lord? That is just one place, it is not a household, but we do not need to go into all the examples.
DH In revelation it says, “Her shining was like a most precious stone”, Rev 21: 11. Mr Darby’s footnote as to that is very interesting; she is a light bearer, and what is seen in her are the glories of Christ. What should be seen in the wife, in that way, is the glory of her husband.
WSC That is good that you mention the thought of the light bearer, because that is the place of the husband in the house. He is to lead the house, to lead in spiritual matters, not to dominate as a lord. When it says "head" it means "head", not "lord". But he leads in the direction that the house is to take. I think that should be easy to understand. Maybe not so easy to do.
PDS Ephesians 5 says, “Husbands, love your own wives”, v 25. Men would rather be respected than loved if we are given the choice, but it is the other way with the woman, she wants to be loved more than anything. God calls on us husbands to “love your own wives”. That is a challenge. She is subject to a loving husband; there is a balance there.
APD The pattern is that Christ is head of the assembly, which is His body. That means that she shares in his headship. That would be the pattern for us, would it?
WSC It definitely is the pattern, and should be the pattern overall in these meetings, that Christ is head of the assembly, “Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it”, Eph 5: 25. That should be the husband’s motto. It would be remarkable if he could say that.
APD I understand that it means that she shares in His headship. It is not that she is personally inferior, but she has a place alongside of Him in headship.
RG The end of Ephesians 5 says, “This mystery is great, but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”, v 32. Does that support what you are referring to? Here it is “I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”.
WSC I think what our brother has said is right, the pattern of headship should be found in Christ and that translates back - I do not want to say the ’chain of command’ - right down from Christ to man, to woman, it comes down that way. What you have called attention to is that she shares in that. That brings up a big question for us, particularly for brothers, as to how administration in our localities proceeds; because if Christ is the Head, then the question is whether we should make our own mind up and decide what to do, or whether His feelings are to govern. It must be that He is Head, and then what is done in an assembly is done as Christ would do it, with the same love, with the same affection, and yet the same principles of holiness.
HJG The word out of heaven was, “This is my beloved Son … hear him”, Matt 17: 5.
WSC He must be the Centre.
HJK I would just like to get your thought as to a scripture in the Kings, when there was a good king it is sometimes said, “and his mother’s name was…” (see 1 Kings 15: 10; 22: 42). I wondered whether you had some thoughts as to the woman and the idea that she should guide the home?
WSC I almost read the scripture that she is to “rule the house” (1 Tim 5: 14), and she should. It has been said that the mother has the most to do with the children; she spends the most time with the children. What does she impart to them, what does she give them? Moses’ mother made him an ark, “and plastered it with resin and with pitch” (Exod 2: 3); she preserved him. I think that is a wonderful principle. It says of Solomon that he was “a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother”, Prov 4: 3. That is what Solomon remembered, great king that he was: he remembered his mother’s affections, he remembered what she said to him, and we may under-estimate the importance of the mother.
HJK To go along with that, the home needs to be established in love, but without the affections, a home or the assembly will not go on in righteousness.
WSC I think that is true generally. We make allowance for correction and for repentance and so on, but you often wonder how Solomon knew to say, “Bring me a sword”, when it was the question of the baby. Because he knew his mother. He knew what a mother’s affections were. So he says: “Bring me a sword ... And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other. Then spoke the woman whose was the living child to the king, for her bowels yearned over her son”, 1 Kings 3, 24-26.
JAH We have Christ set apart on high, and we have the Spirit resident in the assembly; how does that work out in the households? We have Christ there to give us the balance of anything that comes up so that we do not become extreme one way or the other, and that can be worked out in the power of the Spirit. I would like more help as to how that works out in a household. We see how that works out assembly-wise, but then the household is a bulwark of the assembly; so how does it work out then? Is the husband to be sensitive to where Christ is and to be balanced in that sense? How do you see that?
WSC I think it is the other way around. I think it works out in the household and then in the assembly. I do not think it is the other way around. We often speak about the Spirit, but if it were not for godly households locally, at this moment today, what would we have? We would have nothing, and I think that is part of the question that has been asked, that the husband is to lead in that. He is to seek the Spirit’s guidance for himself first, and then for his house.
JAH I can see that. It is easy for a husband to be extreme sometimes; so he has to arrive at a balance from the Head in heaven. Then that works out towards the assembly as a balanced household.
WSC The Spirit would not tell him one thing and tell his wife another. Therefore they become one in the Spirit.
GH The jailor in Acts came to something and his whole house was moved, they all went the same direction, Acts 16: 30-33.
WSC That is right. He led in that. He was going to kill himself, “having drawn a sword was going to kill himself”, verse 27. Then the next thing is that he accepts salvation and immediately his whole house is baptised. He was the lead in the house. It is often, in my personal experience, that when I was not leading, my helpmate came in and helped. I am thankful for that, but that is no excuse for me.
DJK I am interested too in relation to the woman in John 4 because when she desires this water the first thing the Lord says to her is, “Go, call thy husband”, v 16. I am interested that He was not merely pointing out what had taken place in her life in that way, but order was involved, do you think?
WSC I think so and it is an important point. Even in our relations together, if a sister approaches you about a matter, would it be wise to ask for her husband? I think the Lord does that; of course, He is bringing out a point as to who her head was, and she replies that she had had all of these, “I have not a husband. Jesus says to her, Thou hast well said, I have not a husband; for thou hast had five husbands, and he whom now thou hast is not thy husband”, John 4: 17, 18. He then became her Head. That scripture helps in this inquiry.
JB Of the woman of worth it says, “she surveyeth the ways of her household”, Prov 31: 27. Then it says, “Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her”, verse 28. She would see to what is amiss in the house because the husband is not always there, but then his rule is by influence.
WSC It is. Headship is basically by influence, as we know. It is just that he gives the direction, that this house is going to be a godly house, not in so many words, but that is what he shows. He does not bring things into his house that are not godly.
JB What we alluded to in the last reading as to Priscilla and Aquila; they had one neck, Rom 16: 4.
WSC And even Priscilla was mentioned first three times.
RG Peter was a married man. What would you say about Peter when he speaks about dwelling with the weaker vessels? It says here, “Ye husbands likewise, dwell with them according to knowledge, as with a weaker, even the female, vessel, giving them honour, as also fellow-heirs of the grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered”, 1 Peter 3: 7. What would you say about that?
WSC I do not know what I would say about the weaker vessel, except that she has that place. God said that she would bear children, and her place was under rule because of the fall (Gen 3: 16); the idea of a weaker vessel does not come in until after sin.
RG You will notice that it does not say the weak vessel but “the weaker vessel”.
WSC It is on both sides. I think that the man is given the headship, he is given the place to rule in that sense, and I think Peter was referring to that when he said "the weaker vessel".
JB Just before that he speaks of “holy women who have hoped in God heretofore adorned themselves, being subject to their own husbands; as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; whose children ye have become, doing good, and not fearing with any kind of consternation”, 1 Peter 3: 5, 6. I wondered if Peter was really referring to that characteristic of holy women: she would know how to conduct herself in the house.
WSC I think that is good; it is good to get the context of the scripture, but it ends up with “fellow-heirs of the grace of life” and they are together there.
JB I think what you have said as to headship is important. It is not lordship but headship by way of influence. We see in Eve that she got out of the influence of headship, and she listened to the serpent and disaster followed.
WSC That is right, and I think it is that to which Peter refers, that the devil knew who to go to. A question I have is, how the devil got into the garden in the first place, because Adam was told to guard it, and yet the devil got in. I think in a sense there is some failure with the man.
NSB Was not Satan in Eden before man was created? “Thou wast in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was thy covering”, Ezek 28: 13. That would be before the fall.
WSC Was that the “garden in Eden”? I do not think that was the garden in Eden. He was in Eden, but this is the garden in Eden. This is a special place in Eden.
JAH The reference in Ezekiel is to one that is protecting the throne of God in a very great sphere. I do not know if the two references are to the same place, but it is the idea.
WSC I believe that this was a different place; this was a special confined area that Adam was put in.
PH In relation to what is being said about the fall of man, the scripture that has been referred to is helpful in that way. It says, “Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land”, Prov 31: 23. That really helps us to see the role of the man; the thought of protection comes in there. He “sitteth in the gates”, he is really protecting both the household and the local assembly. The thought of the gates brings in the thought of administration.
WSC That is right. God said to Nebuchadnezzar through Daniel, “thou art this head of gold”, Dan 2: 38. Nebuchadnezzar had no choice; it was not a choice he made, “thou art this head of gold”. God had put him there and I believe, on a similar line of thinking man is in that place, he has that responsibility. It is not a small responsibility and each man will be held accountable in that regard. I think that we need to realise that; we have to be answerable to Christ, as Christ is answerable to God.
MJK Could you say something as to the thought of authority? You get the thought of authority in 1 Corinthians 11 and order is there too. I just wondered whether that might come into what is being spoken of in relation to the man and the woman?
WSC I think it does; it comes into what we are saying as to the man’s place. If I dare say it, that is man’s place whether he likes it or not. He is a man, and that is his responsibility. Young brothers and older brothers have to regard that; that is their responsibility and they will answer for it. Authority is how it functions, but it works out through love.
MJK Does it work out first in the authority of Christ in relation to man, and that is the foundation of the household? He is set as a cornerstone, not only in relation to God’s house, but in relation to our own households as well?
WSC I believe that - it stems from Christ. Therefore it is vital that we go right back to the beginning. It is vital for each person to have a link with divine Persons themselves.
JAH Are there two sides of headship and rule, one is before the fall, or the pristine idea; and then the other is how we work things out in the difficult situations of the fall? We need to carry the two thoughts together, do we not?
WSC We live in an imperfect world because of sin coming in and disease, we know that, disease and weakness, physical weakness, as well as all the licentiousness of man. So we need to work on how to do that. The light is shining in the darkness; it has rule in the darkness. We find our way through that by this order, God’s order, that it is from Christ. If you have any question, here is the written word, and the Spirit is here. He is here personally, a divine Person is here today, and we can go to Him for our answers.
CWW So headship would involve both protection and movement in the sense that we have a responsibility to protect the house, but also there is responsibility to ensure that there is movement towards Christ at the same time. I was thinking of what has been said as to the jailor: he brought his house with him. There is a responsibility, not only of protecting from evil influences, but ensuring that there is spiritual growth in the house as well.
WSC Do you find it interesting that the children of Israel had light in their dwellings before they were to put the blood on the doorpost and lintel and before they exited Egypt, Exod 10: 23?
CWW The lamb was there.
WSC That is true, but they had light in their dwellings; there was something there, something substantial. The darkness was so dark it could be felt outside, but here was a house with light; and then they are told to put blood on the doorpost and lintel for the protection of the household. There is no question about any of them saying, ’We want to stay behind, we think we like it better here’. They went out, they led. Headship was leading out of Egypt.
CWW There is a responsibility then on us to make sure that we are making Christ attractive in the house. Each believer has their own personal hidden history with Christ, but it is also important that we share appreciations of Christ in the house.
WSC I think that is very good.
HJK Can I just go back to the thought about there being light in their dwellings? In the land of Goshen they had light, and Goshen means ’to draw near’. So, in some measure they are drawn near to God, and so it was the land of Goshen where there was light in the dwellings. I think what you say is very interesting and helpful to see.
WSC That comes in prior to Israel’s response, and prior to any movement out. I know they weakened even before they got to the Red Sea, but there was still that movement, and I think we need to give each other credit for any little bit of movement that we may make.
APD Do you think it helps to refer to Paul saying, “Be my imitators”, 1 Cor 11: 1. We should proceed in regard to Paul’s ministry, generally rejected around us; he has many things in mind, but one he has is order. "God is not a God of disorder, but of peace", 1 Cor 14: 33. The detail and the balance of this chapter is really Paul’s ministry.
WSC I am glad you call attention to that. It is very important that Paul’s ministry be recognised, and largely it is not recognised in Christian circles around us. I am not going to specify any place, but Paul’s ministry is the first thing to be lost. Immediately you have one-man ministry, you have a pastor, you have something of this nature, immediately you are away from Paul’s ministry and I really believe that that is critical to our time.
APD I think that we need to see the detail of this chapter, such as the cutting of hair and the matter of the token, all these things have been brought before us and are connected with Paul’s ministry, 1 Cor 11: 5, 6.
WSC I believe that is very critical. Paul’s ministry is not honoured in the world - we may make little of some Christian women for always wearing a covering, but they are demonstrating this scripture. The reason the token or covering does not come up in our meetings is because the force of it is lost if it is done by prescription. I mean a godly woman - we have referred to “holy women”, that is the kind of woman - would do it because of the angels. Angels look on and they see this matter of subjection as well. It is not just what we see, but it is what the angels see.
JAH The mystery of piety has been seen of angels (1 Tim 3: 16), but now we are seen of angels. So what do they see? That is the motivation for a sister: it is not rules to obey, it is motivation of what angels take account of.
WSC That may be where this truth is lost, because we do not make a rule or a law. But it is plain in scripture.
SWD I just wanted to refer to when Paul first gave his directions, the first thing he says is, “But I wish you to know that the Christ is the head of every man”. That seems to be crucial as a beginning.
WSC That is where it starts and if we understand that we will see that the whole system of order is in place. A corporation cannot run without order.
DH In relation to Rebecca it says, “she took the veil, and covered herself”, Gen 24: 65. That was without instruction; it was done by instinct. She was guarding what belonged to Isaac, the great type of Christ.
WSC I think that is beautiful. That is a tremendous scripture and I love to think of the walk from the camel to the tent. "Isaac led her” (verse 67), that walk. What an amazing moment it is to be walking with Christ. That is where we are today; we are walking to the tent, but what a privilege we have. It should cause us to desire to do everything for Him.
DH It would highlight what we said earlier, sharing His place in headship. That is how it comes into expression.
WSC She immediately recognised that in him. We think it would be different if it was Christ, but it would not be different.
HJK Would you agree that the measure in which man is found in subjection to Christ is the measure in which he can expect the woman to be subject to him?
WSC That is quite true, but I have known godly women who are subject to ungodly men.
HJK I agree with that, but the thing is that man expects women to be subject, when he himself is not.
WSC Then that becomes lordship.
HJK I think you will find generally in the breakdown in the home, man is responsible, and that is where it really starts, even in the world. Man gave up his position and woman is coming into power. That is the order right now, and you see that sometimes in the assembly.
WSC The final word is, let us be subject to God: “Subject yourselves therefore to God”.
SWD It is in this setting where it so beautifully says, “Does the Spirit which has taken his abode in us desire enviously? But he gives more grace”. There is all the grace that is needed for all the instruction we have had.
WSC Yes, there is plenty of grace.
Calgary
1st July 2011