John 1: 35-47
Mark 10: 46-52
Acts 19: 8-12
Joshua 3: 3-4, 9-11; 4: 20-22
RG-y What is in mind in suggesting these scriptures is to enquire together about following the Lord. It has always been, in this present dispensation, that the Lord has looked for persons who would follow Him, and I suppose it is no less important today that we should be found here as followers of Jesus.
I suggested John’s gospel first because I think in his writings John shows us the workability of Paul’s ministry in a broken day. John and Paul agree entirely in every detail, but John helps us to see how we can work out Paul’s ministry in the present conditions. And so we began with this account of those persons who saw Jesus and followed Him.
In the second scripture we are told about Bartimæus who followed Him, that is Jesus, but it says he “followed him in the way”. I think that is something that we need to consider. Every Christian would say that he is seeking to follow Jesus, but the question is, how does He wish us to follow Him? He sets out the way for us, and I think the Christian way is set out for us in Paul’s teaching.
In Acts 19 we have what comes in by way of opposition in the history of Christianity, with persons who spoke against the way, and Paul “separated the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus”.
And then finally in Joshua we have, typically, the result of following this Person whom we have spoken of as Jesus. In Joshua we see how following the Lord is brought to its full completion; that is, we follow Him over Jordan. That is a rather sketchy outline, but I hope we can make something of it.
JDG I am sure we will be able to make something out of it; it is very interesting, and very important. It seems that John’s exclamation as to the Lamb of God helped these persons to identify themselves with Jesus.
RG-y Well, that is part of our Christian experience. Many of us have been brought up among the brethren and from early days we have had the Lord presented to us both in the gospel and in teaching, and it may be said in the saints, and I believe the design of the Spirit of God is that we should become impressed with this Person. John’s writings bring out particularly the matter of family affections. We are brought in to this position on the ground of love for Christ.
JDG The disciples were with the Lord and then spoke to others, and it seems they had the power to convict them. There must have been something in the men’s spirits that clearly showed they had been with the Messiah, Christ.
RG-y It is something that we need to learn, that as we come as children to the meeting, there comes a time in our histories when we begin to feel that there is a voice speaking to us, maybe through the saints, or through a scripture, or through circumstances. The Lord Himself is becoming attractive to us and we begin to see Him through the eyes of faith too as a Person who would draw us to Himself.
JTB In Mark, Bartimæus refers to the Lord as “Rabboni” and there is a reference here to the Lord as “Rabbi”. Is that an important principle, being amenable to teaching? Does that help us in this exercise as to following? And then when you come to Joshua, “What mean ye by these stones?”, chap 4: 6. I suppose it required some teaching by those who had some experience to communicate what that was all about. And that continues, so that is of all importance, do you think?
RG-y It is important. The fact is that the world today would stress that you are an independent unit, you have a mind of your own, and you have rights. Christianity would teach us that we owe everything to Christ, and when we accept that, then we begin to learn from Him. There is no teacher like love. That is a simple statement of the obvious, but if we love someone we surely try to please them, and we watch out and see what suits them, and so it is between the believer and Christ.
DCB The beginning here is “looking at Jesus as He walked”, that is, He had a way and had a path; would you say something about that?
RG-y Well, you have really put your finger on the core of the exercise. What you say is very important; He has a way. Now we have all met persons who say, ’Yes, Christianity is the thing, and we know the Lord, but let us pursue Christianity in our own way, let us be in liberty’. Well, liberty is right, there is no doubt about it, but the Lord has a way, and it is our salvation to be found in that way. Can you say more?
DCB Are we helped by admiration of Him, in this way, by the assurance that there is only One?
RG-y Yes, that is one of the reasons why I started with John. You might have said, ’Why not start with Paul and his setting out of matters, and then go to John’, but John shows us that persons are bound together by admiration for Christ, and their love towards Him and towards one another.
RG Is that borne out by the fact that you see subjection, and you see adjustment, and these are two basic features if we are to be followers, do you think?
RG-y Yes, and when we begin to see the need for that and accept it, then we have really got our feet in the pathway, do you think? And that only comes through affection for Christ. The parliaments of this world try to legislate for human nature with multitudes of laws, ’Do not do this, do that, and so on’, and man after the flesh finds ways round it. Christianity binds us to Christ and as we love Him we love to do what pleases Him. Is that what is in your mind?
RG I was thinking that John himself was subject to the Lord, but then there were those brothers, who were subject to one another. Then in Nathaniel there was a necessary adjustment, and he was ready for it; and these are all prerequisites to be true followers, do you think?
RG-y Yes, and I think it is one of the reasons why we need to keep on with the teaching of the gospel, and listening to the gospel, because it is for unconverted souls no doubt, but the terms and the teaching of the gospel would help us to be amenable and subject.
GBG Some might say that the Lord will lead one Christian one way, and another another, but that is harmful, is it not? That is not the truth, is it?
RG-y No. There is only one way and it is the way that He is on and leading in.
GBG And similarly the Spirit guides into all the truth; He would lead Christians who are subject and amenable in the one direction not in various directions; and that would bring about unity, is that right?
RG-y Yes, it is. The enemy has used the idea very successfully that there are various ways, Roman Catholicism, Methodism, Church of England, and who would deny that there are genuine souls in each; but that is not God’s thought, and that will not prevail in heaven.
NJH Following Jesus involved a change on His side. It is not just that we follow from our own side, it actually affects Christ: it says “turning round”. Is that important to see, that He is getting something out of our following?
RG-y Yes, I think that is important. And I do not want to oversimplify things, but there comes a time in our lives when we begin to realise that He is actually listening to us, He is interested in us. You say faith would tell you He is always interested, but to have a conscious sense of a link with Him, and that He has His eye on you, He is looking on you for good, that is a very blessed thing, do you think?
JDG Is that generally communicated in our experience by receiving the gift of the Spirit?
RG-y Yes, I think that is helpful. Things begin, to use a simple expression, to come alive for us when we realise the presence and power of the Holy Spirit.
RG Bearing out what was said just now, I remember James Taylor speaking about the two milch kine which went by the one high way, 1 Sam 6: 12. He made the comment that there is only one way, vol 28 p395. You cannot say, ’You go one way, and I am going another way’. There is only one high way, and the Lord was walking in that one high way.
RG-y Yes, He was, and the scripture tells us that He has left us “a model that ye should follow in His steps”, 1 Pet 2: 21. Now that is right, and the model is fixed, it does not change, the model is always the model, but what we come to, as following that model, is a current living sense that He is actually speaking to us in the way. We are in a position to hear His voice.
DCB Is it a sacrificial way, in the Lord Jesus as the Lamb of God, but also in these milch kine?
RG-y Yes, that is helpful, and it emphasises further the fact that it is a moral necessity that we begin on the basis of true love for the Lord, otherwise it becomes an imposition.
JCG Allied with that, energy is required in continuing, do you think? “Come and see” involves that there is a measure of energy and exercise in continuing and not just slackening off.
RG-y Yes, that is helpful, and it is an encouraging thing to see the brethren sacrificing to be together. We are not going to start eulogising one another, but we do need to take account of features of Christ as they appear in the saints; in a sense that is what we live on. It is not a substitute, we have got our links with the Lord, but we see those features of Christ practically brought out in the saints.
DTP What has been said about what is sacrificial is so essential, because the things of nature have to be denied, and it can be grievous. But if Christ is the object that gives us strength and power to go forward. The word of the Lord, “follow me, taking the cross” (Mark 10: 21) was a real test to the young man who had himself before him.
RG-y I think what you say is necessary and timely. We tend to follow the Jewish attitude, which was right in its time; that is if my fields prospered and my cattle grew, then that was God’s blessing, it was a sign of God’s favour. That is not the line we are working on now. The brethren are suffering quite a bit of discipline - I do not speak about it carelessly - but the Lord’s love is behind it all, and we have to learn to follow Him whatever the circumstances.
TWL So in Isaiah the setting is slightly different, but at the time when there was recovery and at the time when the Lord was going to be with them, it says in chapter 30, “but thine eyes shall see thy teachers. And when ye turn to the right hand or to the left, thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it”, v 20-21. And it gave them the power to cast off all the things that were contrary. Does that fit in with what you have in mind?
RG-y Yes, it does. I remember an old brother quoted that to me years ago when I was questioning how I would know the Lord was speaking to me; he said, ’Have you never heard a voice behind you?’. Well, I had; most of us have. You say, ’That is just the conscience’; no, the Lord is speaking in relation to what we know to be true, and it is His faithfulness.
Mark’s gospel expands a little on what we have spoken of. It would emphasise the way in which we begin to follow the Lord. We come in by means of the gospel, and one of the things that we have to come to, and it is sometimes not easy, is that we do in fact have a need. We sometimes meet persons in the world who say, ’Well, I am no worse than anybody else’. But God begins to work with us, and we become conscious of having a need, and a need that only He can settle. So Bartimæus began to cry out and say, “O Son of David, Jesus, have mercy on me”. When the Lord speaks to him He says, “What wilt thou that I shall do to thee”, and the blind man said to Him, “Rabboni”; that came from his heart. He had a sense that there was Someone here who could help him and he, so to speak, laid hands on Him; “Rabboni” he said “that I may see”. If we have an exercise or a difficulty the thing is to cling to Christ as if we meant it.
JDG So does “Rabboni” mean ’my own teacher’? It brings out a certain affection in the Lord, in the response.
RG-y It does. True affection, true love for Christ, is the foundation for everything in one sense, and His work in our souls. The world has made a debauched idea of love, and it really means that we need to be clear in our minds how divine love works, and we learn that I think when we see it operating between divine Persons.
DMC It is interesting that the blind man threw away his garment. He was holding on to something, but he threw it away. What would you say about that?
RG-y Have you and I not had to do that in our histories? Hebrews speaks about a similar thing; it says, “laying aside every weight, and sin which so easily entangles us”, chap 12: 1. This man already had something in his soul because, as you suggested, he had a consciousness of what was unsuitable and cast it away, so that he would be fit to approach. Have you any more to say?
DMC I was thinking as to what you were saying earlier as to those that would have held on to the Jewish system. There are things that we may hold on to by tradition, but do we have to see what the Lord is doing and saying?
RG-y Yes; that is so, and it may not necessarily be an evil matter exactly; it may be something more subtle, tradition or teaching or some ideas that I have.
JTB I was thinking of that scripture in Hebrews: “looking stedfastly on Jesus the leader and completer of faith”, chap 12: 2. This blind man’s eyes were opened to look on Jesus, and therefore he was motivated to follow in the way, following Jesus in that way. Throwing away his garment would just be that, every weight of sin or other encumbrance was jettisoned, was it not? He was able to follow Jesus without impediment.
RG-y Yes. I think that is the point, without impediment. There are some things that we do have to deal with, such as the working of sin in the flesh; there is no question about that. There are other things however of which we could say, ’I would be better without that’; it is not exactly gross evil, but I would travel lighter, travel better without it. I think that goes on throughout our lives; the Lord shows to us from time to time things that we do not really need. We should just put them aside.
NJH Is sight needed for the way? I am thinking the hearing brought him into the wayside; he had hearing. But he needed sight for the way; that is how young people come to it; they are in a privileged environment where the Lord is moving, but they need sight to follow?
RG-y Yes, they do, but you have opened up a big question, because people’s minds have never been so besieged by various stimuli; television is the obvious one, but there are dozens of things that would catch our sight from morning to night and can bring confusion into our mind. What is going to help us is this spiritual eyesight and the beginning of that is with the gift of the Holy Spirit.
JCG If we have spiritual eyesight it involves the objective, and that is that Christ is going to the cross, through death and into new life; that was the way He was following, was it not? Is that important for all of us at the present time when there is so much which is against the saints, and so much of a formal and ceremonial character?
RG-y Yes. If time permits we will get some impression of what is involved in following in this way. I do not want to divide the thing into compartments, but really the Christian way is set out in Paul’s ministry. I am not excluding Peter or John, but the nub of it is there, and it involves (and you cannot over-stress this) that I have an impression of a Man in heaven, and remember the way He has taken in order to be there before God in righteousness.
PAG God has in mind to head up all things in the Christ, which I suppose is something of the top stone of Paul’s ministry as to Christ and the assembly. Do you think if we had the sense that God only had one Man before Him that would help us?
RG-y It would, yes. How often have we said that God only has one Man before Him, and the question I would ask myself is, ’Is it true?’. Well, you say, ’It must be true, the scripture teaches it’, but, is it true to me? Does it govern my life? And that is what the Christian way involves. I am not now walking at my own charges; I am following Him.
JDG Paul stresses quite a bit the thought of the call in his ministry. The Lord calls this man; is it to indicate that he belongs to Christ? He has ownership of him.
RG-y That is another important thing you see. I have come to the Supper; who asked me to come? It is the Lord’s call; it is His commandment. He said, to do this ’for the calling of me to mind’, 1 Cor 11: 24 footnote i. Now that is plain and simple, and it is His word, so that it would have the effect of a commandment, do you think?
TRC The Lord does not tell him to follow Him; it seems instinctive. At the end of John’s gospel the Lord exhorts Peter to follow Him. This man saw something in Jesus; the Lord says “Go, thy faith has healed thee”, but the man follows Him. He obviously saw something in Christ that he recognised he could not do without, do you think?
RG-y Yes, that is helpful. On many occasions the Lord says, “Follow me”, but here the man’s instincts were such that he could not do anything else. He left the encumbrance behind, he saw the Man who had saved him, and followed Him; I think it is something that we have to come to. One of the scourges of present Christendom is comparative religion; there is no comparative religion, there is only one Man, and there is only one Way, and that is Christ.
JAB I feel the need to understand that the Lord wants us to follow Him in this way. It is not something that would be nice to do if we were committed. The Lord wants us all to follow Him; would it be going too far to say He needs us to follow Him in this way?
RG-y No, it would not be going too far to say that, I believe it is right. The Lord has come in; it is a tremendous matter that God has made time, and showed Himself in it, and He has done it through the Person of His Son, as you are suggesting. The Lord needs us to fill out the purpose of God, and hence the matter becomes very pressing on us. Have you more to say?
JAB I feel the need to keep both thoughts in mind. Our brother referred to how this man was attracted to follow Jesus, and if we are not attracted to Jesus then we are not in Christianity really, livingly; but at the same time He asks us to do this and He needs us to do it. So we have got to hold these two thoughts in our hearts, have we not? We need to be there because He is everything to us, but we also need to understand that He needs persons in this way, and to be stimulated and exercised, because there is a certain rigour about it as your scripture in Acts shows, does it not?
RG-y Yes, what you say is helpful, and so what we begin to see is that we are surrounded by help as we enter on this way and proceed on it, and God gives us every resource that we need in order to help us on this way. But it is not optional; that is what I feel about it.
GAB Paul instructs Timothy as to one who is a soldier: he is not to entangle himself with the affairs of this life, 2 Tim 2: 4. It is interesting that his calling is not exactly to fight, although he is a soldier; but his primary objective is to please him who has enlisted him. That is a similar thing to throwing away the garment, is it not? So you have only got one objective before you and that is the One who has enlisted you.
RG-y Yes. I think that bears on what we are saying, and helps. Our object is to please Him who has enlisted us. Affection enters into that, but the kingdom setting of things involves that we are under regulation; that is part of the way, and we have to accept it.
RG Is what you are saying worked out in Paul himself? Remember when the Lord said to Ananias, “this man is an elect vessel to me” (Acts 9: 15); that links with what was said. But then it says, “And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales”, and then it says, “And he was with the disciples who were in Damascus certain days” v 18, 19. There was the company that could support him in the way as an elect vessel. He went then and “preached Jesus he is the Son of God”, v 20.
RG-y That helps to expand the matter. When we come into the way we say, ’Well, there will just be the Lord and me’; but, no, there are myriads of others in the way who will pursue the Lord’s ordering and who will be a help to us and a support to us, and we can work things out together.
RCT Did Bartimæus have a good start? It has been helpfully suggested he was on the Jerusalem side of Jericho. I wondered if that would help that kind of outlook.
RG-y Yes, that is helpful. Jesus had passed through Jericho. I believe as we follow in this way we begin to gather up impressions, and not only have the blessed Man Himself, and have His help, but we begin to gather up impressions of what pleases Him. That is in the assembly, and we are accordingly brought into a very wide sphere of things.
RJC One thing that marked Bartimæus was persistence, do you think? Do we need to have that in view of finding out about Christ, and following Him in the way? He was not to be put off, was he?
RG-y That is good, because some of us are quite easily put off, and especially when we are younger. There are so many influences, and so many interests all whirling around in our heads, we come to it, ’Yes, it is time I did something’, and then it slips away, but Bartimæus knew what he needed, he knew what he wanted, and he persisted until he got it, and the Lord blessed him on that account.
AL I am just thinking of what we have in verse 50, “he started up”; that was a junction in his life, really that was when he committed himself, and the chapter ends with “he ... followed”. We need to be helped in continuance.
RG-y Yes, that is good. James Taylor said quite often in his ministry that the Lord loves definiteness, vol 7 p71; He does not like half-hearted persons; Laodicea would bear testimony to that. What you say is right, this man in a sense had a single eye; I know he was blind, but in a spiritual sense he had a single eye; he knew what he needed and he knew who could provide it for him and nothing would turn him aside.
JCG These matters of persistence and resolve to be with Christ lead to attachment. Mr Raven’s ministry (eg vol 16 p 322) as to attraction, attachment and affection for Christ would bear on it. Persons like Bartimæus become attached to Jesus, and the way becomes easy because He is in front of us.
RG-y Yes. That is helpful, because what we find (and I would say this to anyone who is exercised on this line) is that at the beginning of soul exercise in us, the Lord is standing by. He is waiting to add help, and the Holy Spirit too, to give power and grace to go on. Do not stifle exercise in yourself. If there is something stirring in your soul, pray about it; tell the Lord. Even if you are not clear, or not sure exactly what your thoughts are, speak to the Lord and make way for the Spirit. You will not be short of help.
DCB The history immediately moves on to the colt, does it not? Is that really suggesting someone conscious that the Lord has need of him, and carrying the testimony forward?
RG-y Yes, that is helpful, and again it goes back to what our brother said, that the Lord actually needs us. You might say He can do everything Himself; yes, that is so, but the glory for God comes when persons like ourselves are taken up, and blessed, and given the gift of the Spirit, and made useful in the testimony; God has something He can point to, and say that this is the fruit of His work.
GBG John’s gospel is very individual to begin with; it is “he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life”, chap 8:12. But then in chapter 10 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me”, verse 27. We have also to follow together, do you think? And is it often by ministry that we follow together?
RG-y Yes, that is an interesting suggestion. So 2 Timothy speaks about separating from evil and then “with those”, chap 2: 22. In a way it is like the furnishings in the path. There are others there and the Lord will bring His work together and make use of it.
GBG It is “hear my voice”; it is in the plural. We hear His voice as together, and are exercised about it, and remember and take it on, and are governed by it; that is following the Lord, is it not? And then it brings about this unity: we are doing it together, and in John’s gospel it is characteristic of sheep to follow, as being true to the work of God in them, is it not?
RG-y Yes. “My sheep hear my voice, ... and they follow me”: do you think that would include the Supper? We come together, and for the moment all our matters are set aside. We see Himself first of all in the emblems, and then we receive a spiritual touch as He comes in, “My sheep hear my voice”. In other gatherings too something comes in that is living; that is confirmation, that is strengthening in the pathway, is it not?
RG You were speaking about the Supper, and we experience that; but I wondered if the Lord is speaking to us right now in this meeting. There are a lot of young people here, and the enemy is making a bid for the young people, and what the Lord is saying to us is, ’Are we going to go on together, following Him in the one highway?’. What do you think?
RG-y We have to be wise. I do not point the finger at anyone else in this, but I have to be careful not to see the young people as a kind of class apart. I know John speaks of children, young men and fathers (1 John 2: 12-14), we know that and understand it, but to get the truth across without lecturing is a tremendous gift, and one of the best ways of doing it is walking in the path ourselves. But coming together for meetings and finding something that is enjoyable and satisfies our hearts; that is a testimony too that would attract them, do you think?
TWL Is that seen then in Elijah and Elisha when they went on, because there was a moral road that Elijah was going on, and Elisha would not be put off. So there was zeal with him, but Elijah went with him on the way, the two of them went together, until they got to the other side of the Jordan, 2 Kings 2. Is that important?
RG-y Yes, I think going on together is very important. We have been reading at home locally about Joseph and the way he turns his brethren round over four or five chapters; it is a lesson book in skill. The story they start off with, when they tell Joseph who they are and where they came from, changes as the chapters go on, and eventually what shines out under Joseph’s hand is that they start speaking feelingly about their father and their own history. What I am trying to say is that to have skill to bring out the best in the brethren, and go along with them, is most desirable.
TWL That is what I was thinking, and it is important that we are all in this together, none are more important than the young are, and body feelings involve everybody. So the service of God involves everybody, young people and old people, young sisters and old sisters. It is important that we all are attracted to the same Person, on the same way, with the same power, because then things will continue, but otherwise they will not. Young people may think that they are not up to this, but they are. The young and the old go together.
RG-y I think that is important, and something we should carry with us, to show affection without being sentimental; it is something that we need skill to do. The young people have a place in our hearts, they have a place in God’s heart, more to the point, and it would help us in our dealings, not just with them, but with one another, to be more gentle, but I do not mean sentimental.
RG Ruth was affected by Naomi. There was no sentimentality in that but there was love.
RG-y That is it in a nutshell. We can talk about love, but can I display it? That is the test.
PAG You have spoken about the working out of Paul’s ministry. It says in 1 Corinthians 12, “For also in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bondmen or free, and have all been given to drink of one Spirit”, v 13. Everyone who has the Spirit can be regarded as being baptised into the one body, and that is nothing to do with age or stage.
RG-y Well, that is true, and so that would bring up the matter of respect for one another. As we hold each other in affection, and respecting the work of God that is there; then we will be influential with each other.
DMC Referring back to Mark for a moment, do you think the fact that Mark was a recovered man would cause him to feel the very words that he was writing, that they meant something to him? Do you think that we have got to come in on the line of recovery?
RG-y I think recovery is one of the features of this present dispensation, involving repentance and self judgment. We can be brought back into full usefulness and Mark is a shining example of it.
NJH In Acts 19, Paul knew where the enemy was active, and it says “he left them”, v 9. There was a certain leadership in that in love, and then he “separated the disciples”. That is how the influence would take place when we recognise what the enemy is at; is that right?
RG-y I think that is helpful. That is one of the reasons that I suggested Acts 19. The thought may arise with some ’Why all this separation; why can we not be more broad in our outlook; and make way for true lovers of the Lord?’. But what you have said is right; there was something here that was valuable, that is, the way, and persons spoke injuriously about it. ’You are far too narrow; you are bigoted’. Well, what do you do? Do you stop loving these people? Of course not. We must, however, keep separate, because otherwise the purity of what has been entrusted to us will become contaminated. Would you agree?
NJH Yes, the character of Paul’s ministry really, and his own devotion, was to keep the way pure. When we come to 2 Timothy, it is to keep the way pure; that is how we have to act.
RG-y Well, that is so, and we have had quite a bit in our local readings about holiness. I can see the need of it, holiness that would instinctively cause us to turn away from what is not right.
JCG There was no persuading after the disciples were separated. In the first incident, there was reasoning and persuading during three months, but after the separation there was only the reasoning. Does that mean that there was a state engendered by the Holy Spirit that encouraged the taking on of the teaching and the understanding of it?
RG-y I think that is helpful. We have had to touch on things quite lightly, but really what underlies the assembly, which is what we are coming to now, is the truth of the kingdom and in that persons are subject. And if they are not subject, they are not really in the good of the kingdom.
JDG Would admonition be out of love for the person and love for Christ? It says in chapter 20, “I ceased not admonishing each one of you with tears”, verse 31. It must have been something of his personality that came out in Paul that showed his affection for the Lord, and his affection for the saints.
RG-y Yes, that is helpful, because admonition can rouse the flesh, but admonition where the affections are really involved is a necessary part of things.
JDG You need to show your local brethren, and all the brethren, how much you value them as being partners in the fellowship.
RG-y Yes. What I had in mind in Joshua is the fact that if we follow the Lord here faithfully, in the tests and the vagaries of the wilderness pathway, the time will come when He will lead us into what we speak of as privilege. We break bread in the wilderness, but then He comes in and takes us out of that setting of things, and Joshua deals with that.
APG Would Caleb be an example? It says of him several times he “wholly followed Jehovah”. It says the inheritance, Hebron, was given to him because he had wholly followed Jehovah to this day, Josh 14: 14.
RG-y That is helpful, and I think it is a word to us all, “wholly followed Jehovah”. It is the truth, and it is what should be aimed at, and he was given what answered to that in Hebron.
DCB It is the ark that they are now following. Could you say something about that?
RG-y The fact is that they did not usually follow the ark. I know it happened once in Numbers 10, the ark had led them, but they usually followed the pillar of smoke or the pillar of fire; it moved and then they moved. The ark was normally in the centre. That is, so many tribes went off, then the Levites bore the ark, and then so many tribes followed. But here was something special, and I think as we come to the Supper we have that in mind. We are not embarking on a ritual called ‘holy communion’. I am not sneering at that, but what we have in mind is to meet the Lord and follow Him, but perhaps you could say something yourself.
DCB That helps. Here is One who has fulfilled the way, One who has the law in His heart, who is doing what is entirely pleasing to the Father, and you have that One in your view, and that attracts you forward.
RG-y We must never forget the greatness of who we are dealing with. We often have, or usually have, at the time of the emblems and just after, an ascription of praise to the Lord Jesus as to His greatness and His glory. I sometimes think there is room there for reference to what is creatorial; it is one of His glories, “by him were created all things”, Col 1: 16. We have to have the sense that we are engaged with something that is entirely separate from the world and its ways.
JAB Do we see then that the way that we have been speaking of leads to the service of God, and to the magnification of Christ? I was thinking of verse 14 of chapter 4, “On that day”; they had followed the ark as you have been saying, and “On that day Jehovah magnified Joshua”. And what we arrive at from experience, as well as from ministry, is that the way that you have been speaking of leads to the richness of the service of God, and no other way does. Mr James Taylor’s ministry stressed the necessity for what you have been bringing before us, but also was used to develop the richness of the service of God, and these two things are mutually interdependent, are they not?
RG-y Well, you could hardly over-emphasise that. Because if we think we are pursuing a slightly superior kind of Christianity, that we know a little more, or claim to, that is hopeless. What the Lord has in mind, as you pointed out, is all tending to this. That is what our weekly experiences are, that is what the Supper is for, and the wilderness discipline; it all has in view that we should be with Him before the Father, and the Supper is the way into that.
NJH Moving from your place would eventually take you through to the ark’s place under David, is that right?
RG-y Yes indeed, but we have the advantage of looking back and seeing what the significance was of these things. The service of God in type under David, and as filled out by Solomon, has a wealth, a fulness, and a grandeur that can be matched by nothing else.
Edinburgh
21st January 2010